Please have a look at the discussion page about "khebernivis"
Ferhengvan 10:48, 3 adar 2006 (UTC)
Pronounciation and Afrikaans[biguherîne]
Hi Jcwf! (Do you have any catchier name :-)
I recommend "Xwendin" for pronounciation although it literally means "reading". You can also use "bilêvkirin" or "telefiz" both meaning pronounciation.
As for Afrikaans, there is unfortunately no standard form as yet. But Kurdish has always "î" ending for languages so Afrîkaansî is better. Afrîkaans is a person whose native language is Afrîkaansî (cf. a "kurd" is a person speaking "kurdî".)
Then one might argue about the double A since Kurdish does not have double letters except for RR and in loanwords - even in those two cases unacceptable to some people.
So use Afrîkansî or Afrîkaansî, but please systematically only one. I would recommend the former.
Ferhengvan 13:56, 4 adar 2006 (UTC)
- My name has a dubble aa, so I wont hurt your eyes with it ;-). I think Afrîkansî is it then. Jcwf 14:44, 6 adar 2006 (UTC)
Afrîkaans + derived words[biguherîne]
The category "Kategorî:Peyvên afrîkaans" has been deleted. There was one word under it "hak". It has been moved to "Kategorî:Peyvên Afrîkansî!
When you add a word, please nclude also the words derived from it under "Jê" (from which). See for intance, Dutch kat
"I had put the word af:kûç on the Afrikaans wikti, but got into a discussion with the only other active user there (Manie) about it. He said it should be kûçik or se..."
- "Kûç" is fine and is a 100% synonym to "se" or "seg". It is true that its diminutive form "kûçik" is used but this does not mean that there is anything wrong with the word "kûç".
and claims that Kurdish is really more a family of languages than a single language and wondered if we should not specify whether this is Kurmanci or Sorani or whatever and develop headers and categories for these (sub?)languages.
- The question of Kurdish being a single language or a family of languages is too difficult to be answered. It is even difficult to answer which languages / dialects are Kurdish. BUt there is at least common understanding that Kurmanji and Sorani are to be considered the same language regardless of the fact that they have there distinct standard versions (although not as well standardized as major European languages).
- In my opinion, it would be disaprrovable to native speakers of the Kurdish to separate the to dialects mentioned. But is there is a fundamental difference in the meaning of a word in the two dialects, then we put the word in Kurdî (kurmanji) and Kurdî (soranî). See for instance kat which means "sprout" in Kurmanji and "time" in Soranî!
- To be honest, both all Wikimedia's Kurdish pages, including Wiktionary, are currently dominated by Kurmanji. It is not our objective but unfortunately they have not attracted Sorani speakers as much as ENglish versions where they seem to write quite actively on topics related to Kurds.
- All word explanations on ku.wikti are currently given only in Kurmanji because all active contributors are Kurmanji speaking. And terms that are distinctly Sorani - there are many of them already on ku.wikti - are also explained or translated into Kurmanji. But we have in no way forbidden Sorani speakers to write in their dialect. I word be happy to see them hear helping us to make the dictionary comprehensive for all Kurds. I have previously prepared a Sorani-Kurmanji dictionary which I am going to gradually add to the ku.wikti.
"Another question is the use of the Latin script versus Arab and Cyrillic. Have you guys here developed a vision on these problems?"
- Kurdish is currently written in Latin and Arabic alphabet and previously Cyrillic script was used by Kurds living in Caucasus and Central Asia (imposed on them by Stalin!)
- Here we allow all three alphabets to be used. But there is a tendency towards Latin script everywhere in Kurdish so I currently use only Latin alphabet which is used everywhere to write Kurmanji (except some Kurmanji speakers in Iraq). It is also used to write Sorani although this dialect uses more modified Arabic alphabet. I hope one day the entire material on wikti.ku will be available in both scripts, but this will certainly need a lot of energy (beyond mine), but I do not think there will be any major technical difficulties.
"Also there is the question of declension and conjugation. Are you guys planning on putting information in on that or is it already there and I just dont recognize it? ( I am blissfully ignorant..)"
- As for declinations of nouns, Kurdish - both Kurmanji and Sorani - are very regular and, therefore, there is less need for declining nouns contrary to, say, Arabic or German in which it is almost impossible to know how to form for instance the plural.
- Kurdish verbs are a bit more difficult and they can be categorized into at least seven conjugations Kurdish Verbs. These conjugations are relevant for present and future tenses. In past tenses, all Kurdish verbs regular in the way.
- In ku.wikti, we put the present and future stem of each verb under the heading "TEWÎN". See for example: birin.
I realize that Kurds have not had the luxury of a government who could bring some order in the linguistic chaos that most of us have been confronted with as well. I would like to add that I respect the right of mothertongue speakers to deal with these issues as well as they might and admire your courage in doing so creatively. Obviously the choices that you guys make here do impact the rest of us and I hope you will take that into consideration and share your knowledge with us. af:Jcwf
Ji "http://ku.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bikarh%C3%AAner_n%C3%AEqa%C5%9F:Ferhengvan" hatiye standin.
I do not see anything wrong with دل.
Regards Ferhengvan 18:14, 12 adar 2006 (UTC)
.. I do not see anything wrong with دل. No but that is not what you created. as shown by the red link.
I corrected the delal story, but there is a little problem . In Nederland schoon mostly means clean not beautiful. In the latter meaning it is rather archaic. In Flanders the archaic meaning has survived.
- I am a bit confused where the problem with دل cam from.
- Of course you know better what is "beautiful" in Dutch, but I thought that you might have taken delal to be a noun.
- Yes I had, but I corrected it. Thank you for pointing it out. As دل goes, I think the Arab script has been giving more problems lately. I have noticed other problems. Sometimes if I create an interwiki link to an empty page and go to the other language to edit it I end up on the corresponding discussion page instead. Software problems I think.
Mecarî and hungarî[biguherîne]
Sorry for not replying for a long time. I am on move now.
Yes, mecarî and hungarî are synonyms for "Hungarian." Mecarî (from the native "Magyar") is traditionally used whereas "hungarî" is the influence of some European languages.
Ferhengvan 12:11, 18 adar 2006 (UTC)
On a super category[biguherîne]
The category for all languages would be "ziman". Or should it be in English to be used for interwiki purposes?
And yes, "hungarî" should be "mecarî".
Ferhengvan 19:14, 20 adar 2006 (UTC)
You have an interesting question indeed. Hebûn, as a verb, has two meanings: 1) to exist and 2) to have, to possess
"Ez heme, tu heyî, ew heye, em hene, hûn hene and ew hene" mean "I exist, you exist..." Hear the verb agrees with the subject of the sentence.
The ergative case is used to mean "to have". The subject is in the casus obliquus but the object is casus rectus. The verb agrees with the object, not with the subject:
"Min tu heyî." (I have you!) "Te ez heme." (You have me!) "Me ew heye." (We have him/her/it) "Me ew hene." (We have them.)
Although ergative is a common phenomenon in Kurdish (Kurmanji, Sorani and Zazaki), "hebûn" is still really a unique case. Apart from the case with "hebûn" and "vîn/viyan" (to want, wish, request etc.) Kurdish ergative is restricted only to the past tenses:
A KURMANJI EXAMPLE:
- Ez te dibînim. ("I see you." - subject is casus rectus, object is casus obliquus and the verb agrees with the subject)
- Min tu dîtî. ("I saw you." - subject is casus obliquus, object is casus rectus and the verb agrees with the object!)
One possibility why "hebûn" is so unique is that perhaps previously it was not an ergative case, but a preposition might have preceded what we now consider the subject, for example:
- Bo min tiştek heye ("for me a thing exists" ie. I have something.)
This is because some Kurmanji subdialects still use the following construction:
- Tiştekî min heye. ("a thing of mine exists" to express "I have something.")
If you are more interested in ergative in Kurdish, I have an article on it, but unfortunately only in Kurdish:
Regards --Ferhengvan 31 mrt 2008 20:55 (CEST)